That is an audio transcript of the FT Weekend podcast episode: ‘Travel mini-series: Jessica Nabongo visits every country’
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Lilah Raptopoulos
Hello, FT Weekend listeners. Welcome to the second episode of our particular mini-series on journey. Right this moment I’m joined by author and photographer Jessica Nabongo. Jessica has carried out what appears inconceivable. She’s travelled to each nation on the earth. It’s estimated that lower than 500 folks have carried out it. And Jessica, who’s Ugandan-American, can also be the primary black girl on report to have carried out it. Jessica wrote a e book about her experiences known as The Catch Me If You Can. It was revealed by Nationwide Geographic. And he or she’s come on to inform us what she’s realized about human beings. She’ll give us recommendations on travelling alone and travelling for lengthy stretches. And he or she’s obtained a superb record of locations that can encourage you in your subsequent journey. That is FT Weekend, the podcast, particular journey version. I’m Lilah Raptopoulos. Let’s get into it.
Jessica, welcome to the present. It’s such a pleasure to have you ever right here.
Jessica Nabongo
Thanks a lot for having me.
Lilah Raptopoulos
So you’ve gotten travelled the world. You’ve seen each nation not less than as soon as. That’s 195 international locations. That’s proper, proper?
Jessica Nabongo
Yeah. Like round 50 of them, greater than as soon as, so . . .
Lilah Raptopoulos
Wild. OK, so, Jessica, what made you wanna do that, like, determine to journey to each nation on the earth? It sounds so formidable to me.
Jessica Nabongo
You understand, I believe the factor is, as a result of journey was such an everyday a part of my life, it was one thing that was simply taking place alongside the way in which. So by the point I made a decision to set a deadline, I had been to 60 international locations. However I’m a geography nerd, and since my early twenties, I had been running a blog and I had been saying I needed to go to each nation on the earth. So yearly I would love recount what number of new international locations I visited and I’d fill in my map. However in 2017 and nation 60, I used to be like, all proper, I wanna do that by the point I’m 35.
Lilah Raptopoulos
So what did you do?
Jessica Nabongo
I travelled to 135 new international locations in two and a half years. (laughter)
Lilah Raptopoulos
(laughter) And what have been the issues that you just noticed in these locations that went towards possibly what folks hear within the information about them or what the final consensus is? Like, once I hear each nation on the earth, my thoughts instantly goes, OK, what are essentially the most harmful ones? Was she OK even there?
Jessica Nabongo
You understand, I believe it’s a lot concerning the lens by means of which you’re wanting by means of. For those who go someplace and also you need to discover poverty and distress, you will discover that anyplace. Yow will discover it in the USA, anyplace. However if you happen to go someplace and also you’re trying to uncover tradition, you’re trying to see how folks stay in that nation, then all the pieces to me turns into fairly lovely.
Lilah Raptopoulos
Are you able to give me an instance of that?
Jessica Nabongo
Yeah. Let’s do Iraq. After I landed in Iraq, I went to Erbil and I used to be exhausted. And I had a driver, we had an entire plan to exit into the countryside. And I used to be like, “Look, I’m drained. Simply please take me to my resort”. And he’s like, “No, I can’t try this. Like, not less than, can I deliver you to my house? And my spouse can cook dinner you lunch after which you’ll be able to go to your resort.”
Lilah Raptopoulos
That’s very nice.
Jessica Nabongo
Proper. I do know! And so he brings me into his house and his spouse was there cooking and I obtained to eat with him, his spouse and his son. And it was simply such a stupendous second of, like, human connection. And so, , not solely in Iraq, however in so many locations on the earth, I simply was met by the kindness of strangers.
Lilah Raptopoulos
So your e book was revealed by Nationwide Geographic, and it strikes me that there’s one thing significant about Nationwide Geographic particularly publishing a e book a few black girl travelling to each nation on the earth. Did you’re feeling that method?
Jessica Nabongo
Yeah. I imply, I believe that Nationwide Geographic holds the canon of journey, proper? Like, once you actually have a look at who’re the house owners of our understanding of the world, Nationwide Geographic is completely on the prime of that record. And so to have the ability to have my e book as part of the canon, I believe it’s so necessary for therefore many causes. I believe, primary, for folks, not solely black girls, however for everybody to grasp how I, as an African-appearing girl, transfer by means of the world and what these experiences are.
Lilah Raptopoulos
Proper.
Jessica Nabongo
However past that, the way in which that I see folks, proper? So by means of my images, like, there’s photos within the e book of, like, folks sitting in markets. Nevertheless it doesn’t really feel like poverty porn.
Lilah Raptopoulos
Yeah.
Jessica Nabongo
It feels lovely as a result of it’s all the time about how the photographer is wanting on the topic. I have a look at all my topics with dignity. I ask them their permission. So a number of the portraits within the e book, you’ll see they’re wanting direct to digicam as a result of I’ve requested them their permission to take their image, which hasn’t all the time been the case.
Lilah Raptopoulos
Proper.
Jessica Nabongo
I believe it’s massively necessary to be part of their canon.
Lilah Raptopoulos
Yeah. Jessica, I’m interested by travelling alone, how your expertise of a spot adjustments once you’re there alone.
Jessica Nabongo
I travelled to 89 international locations solo. I believe for me I obtained a deeper understanding of tradition once I’m alone, as a result of once you’re travelling with different folks, you spend a lot time speaking to your pal, your member of the family, no matter. Whenever you’re travelling alone, you’re spending that very same period of time speaking to native folks. So it actually, I believe a number of my adventures grew to become extra lovely once I was doing solo journey as a result of I actually obtained that deep understanding of the international locations that I used to be visiting.
Lilah Raptopoulos
I believe lots of people who haven’t travelled alone however are kind of interested by it will think about, like, that it’s fairly lonely that you just e book a visit and also you get a resort and then you definately’re similar to within the metropolis and nobody and nothing. And also you’re simply sort of strolling round going to the museums alone and consuming alone. And is there a technique to make it a extra enriching expertise to, like, really feel such as you’re there? I imply, how ought to folks do it?
Jessica Nabongo
I like having a information. And if I don’t rent a information, I’ll discuss to the concierge. I’ll discuss to a waiter, I’ll discuss to a bartender. I all the time suppose travelling alone is nice as a result of it offers you the chance to be somebody new so, , be capable to step outdoors of your self, create slightly character in your head that can assist you’ve gotten the boldness to speak to strangers. And the opposite factor is, like, we don’t have to be afraid of strangers.
Lilah Raptopoulos
Yeah.
Jessica Nabongo
I believe the largest lesson that I realized from visiting each nation on the earth is that most individuals are good.
Lilah Raptopoulos
Yeah.
Jessica Nabongo
You understand, we go into so many locations and we’re so afraid. We’re locking up our issues within the resort secure and we’re, , we now have all these theft-proof luggage and all these items.
Lilah Raptopoulos
Strapped to our our bodies and yeah. (laughter)
Jessica Nabongo
Precisely! Like, underneath your shirt. After I inform you I’ve by no means carried out any of that and I’ve by no means had something stolen from me. Plenty of letting that worry go is knowing that most individuals are good. Generally one thing unhealthy may occur, nevertheless it’s really a extremely uncommon incidence. However if you happen to’re so centered on it, you’re really bringing it to you.
Lilah Raptopoulos
A part of why it’s so good to have you ever on is as a result of I believe it lets us think about the query of why we journey, not simply find out how to journey, and never simply kind of like tricks to get the most effective deal, however like massive image, why we do it and why we should always do it.
Jessica Nabongo
I really like that.
Lilah Raptopoulos
And I’m curious, for you, , what do you suppose we should always know? Like, why ought to we journey?
Jessica Nabongo
Yeah, I believe the worth of journey is to be taught concerning the world round you. I believe it’s about constructing human connection. I believe it’s about understanding how different folks stay as a result of on the finish of the day, the life you reside is your solely model of actuality, proper? So if you happen to hear, oh, individuals are residing in a refugee camp, it’s actually exhausting so that you can perceive what that’s if you happen to don’t bodily go there and see it, proper?
Lilah Raptopoulos
Yeah.
Jessica Nabongo
You don’t really feel related to it. It feels unreal as a result of that’s not your existence. So you’ll be able to’t even join with that individual. It’s very troublesome. So I believe once you journey and also you see how totally different folks stay, it actually works to develop your thoughts of the chances. And I believe it additionally in some ways will increase your gratitude for what you’ve gotten.
Lilah Raptopoulos
Mm-hmm. I’m questioning when you’ve got 5 minutes for me to only throw some fast questions at you.
Jessica Nabongo
I really like fast hearth. (Laughter)
Lilah Raptopoulos
As a result of though I talk about wanting to listen to why we journey, which I do, however I additionally sort of wanna know find out how to, find out how to do it.
Jessica Nabongo
OK. I really like, I adore it. Let’s do it.
Lilah Raptopoulos
OK, nice. OK. Primary is packing. How the hell do you pack? Just like the prospect of packing makes me not wanna journey. How do you make it straightforward?
Jessica Nabongo
I all the time begin with a chunk of paper and I actually write down the variety of days and I write down the climate.
Lilah Raptopoulos
OK.
Jessica Nabongo
After which I attempt to, like, sort of record out outfits. However then I even have verify packing containers like underwear, toiletries, passport, digicam, simply to ensure that I’ve all the pieces. And I exploit packing cubes.
Lilah Raptopoulos
Yeah.
Jessica Nabongo
So, like, all of my exercise garments, swimsuits and underwear are in a single, then all of my tops are in one other one, the bottoms, after which I’ve my footwear. And in order that method it’s really easy to, like, make sure that all the pieces I’ve is there. I’m a checked bag lady, so it’s uncommon that I don’t have a checked bag. I was a carry-on solely, however I left that life behind. (Laughter)
Lilah Raptopoulos
OK. So one other query is, , I believe Instagram has inspired us all to go to the identical locations. And so these locations are getting overrun. (Laughter) Yeah, I see, you’re making a face. However there are such a lot of locations on the earth to go. So I’m questioning if you happen to may give me a number of locations that we’d not suppose to journey or be inspired to journey to however, like, actually are wonderful.
Jessica Nabongo
I’d advocate the African continent. You have got Zanzibar. Madagascar is unimaginable, particularly if you happen to love the outside. Zanzibar for the seashores. I really like Senegal, it’s so peaceable. I really like the meals there and it’s on the coast, so you’ll be able to have like a soothing seaside vacation. Uganda, tons of out of doors stuff, but additionally lovely tradition. Kenya, Rwanda, Tanzania — I actually would encourage folks in the event that they’ve not but explored the African continent . . . Namibia! Oh my god, so wonderful. To actually simply begin to dig in. There’s 54 international locations. Positively not all of them are for novice travellers. (laughter) I’m not going to only say, “Go anyplace,” however I’d say there’s not less than 20 international locations that I believe are simply accessible for a novice traveller for certain.
Lilah Raptopoulos
A rustic whose meals you dream about.
Jessica Nabongo
OK, I’m gonna offer you three. (Laughter) One is all the time so exhausting. Japan — I lived there for a 12 months. After which Georgia, nation of Georgia.
Lilah Raptopoulos
Georgia, yeah.
Jessica Nabongo
Amazingly scrumptious meals. After which Senegal. I really like Senegalese meals like Yassa au poisson, which is that this fish dish with, like, onions. Simply numerous recent seafood and sure, it’s so good. So these can be my three.
Lilah Raptopoulos
Jessica, this was so inspiring and actually enjoyable. Thanks a lot for being right here.
Jessica Nabongo
Thanks for having me.
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Lilah Raptopoulos
That’s the present. Thanks for listening to FT Weekend, the podcast from the Monetary Instances. I’ve dropped hyperlinks for the place to seek out Jessica and her e book within the present notes, in addition to a particular low cost to a subscription to the FT. Come again subsequent Wednesday for the third episode of our journey mini-series. We now have the FT’s journey editor Tom Robbins on. Tom is nice. He’s a fount of information. He is aware of all the pieces concerning the tourism trade, and he offers us an trustworthy account of what’s taking place, how sure locations get tremendous standard, and the way the web has modified the way in which we journey. This present is produced by Zach St. Louis, government produced by Topher Forhecz and Cheryl Brumley, and sound engineered by Tommy Bazarian, with authentic music by Metaphor Music.
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